Been Traveling Abroad Lately...
I apologize for the long absence of entries in the blog. I've been traveling for over a month now and will likely not have much time to blog until mid-August. That's bad for viewership :) But not much I can do about it. I'll throw some pics and quotes to you in the meantime.
Here we are below in the French Alps. Glaciers behind and below us. Amazing views of God's creation. Psalm 19:1..."The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands."
9 comments:
Y'all are even more beautiful than the mosque and the mountains! :) We miss you so much. Hannah, this is a big year--I wonder if we will end up at universities close to one another! Wouldn't that be wonderful?!!
Who's hands is that verse referring to? Jesus Christ's or his Dad's?
Hi LDU... great to hear from you! Howz it been going?
About the verse... First of all, the "hands" in the verse are figurative hands. We don't believe that God literally has massive, planet-sized hands and that he literally carved mountains or created other planets by rolling up balls of dirt. Saying that God did something with his hands means that he did it personally, with intent, and with care.
When you refer to Jesus and "his Dad" it doesn't really capture the Biblical meaning of God the Father of Jesus. But I'll move back to your specific question about who made what.
We believe that all creation was created by the triune God's will through the second person of the Trinity; Jesus. Here's what Colossians 1:15- says about it...
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross."
That's not the short and direct answer you were looking. But I think it's right.
"Biblical meaning of God"...
I assume you are refering to God - the combination of the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit?
Does the Bible mention anything about the Biblical God being infinite?
I forgot to add, that assuming the Bible and Christians believing God as being infinite, has the status of the Biblical God changed when Jesus Christs was born and added in the formula of composing the Biblical God?
Dear LDU,
Yes, the Bible would say that the Triune God is infinite in a number of ways such as knowledge (omniscent) and power (omnipotent). I am on the road so don't have the time to look up the verses for you now. I'll try later if you'd like.
About your second comment... we do not believe that when Jesus was born he had just been created. We believe that the Bible teaches he is co-eternal with the Father and the Spirit. Thus his ability to create all things as I stated above. So this is what Jesus was referring to when he said "Before Abraham was, I AM"... (I'll look up reference later for you or go to biblegateway.com).
So we do not believe that Jesus was "added in" as you've stated. When he was born, this was his incarnated state... fully God and fully man. Philippians refers to God the Son emptying himself when he became a man. Kenosis.
Well, again, more than you probably wanted.
Thanks Brian.
So the Biblical God is:
The Father + Jesus Christ (who is "fully God" and simultaneously "fully man"?) + the Spirit...
And, as you provide, the Biblical God is also infinite. So, one third (if i could use that) of the Biblical God is infinite in the form of being "fully God" and equally finite, in the form of being "fully human"?
If the Bible provides that the Biblical God is infinite (both agreeing that infinite means limitless) then how is the Biblical God, of part of the trinity, finite at the same time?
If Jesus Christ, as a component of the Triune Biblical God is "fully human" which makes him finite, then am I correct to assume that Jesus Christ was limited like us in the sense of being "fully human"?
So do Christians worship Jesus Christ - being finite - and equally worship a Triune God being infinite?
If we are to define God as being infinite, and Jesus Christ being in part finite, would that to Christians negate God's infinity? (Also, did the Biblical infinite God, limit itself or part of itself in Jesus Christ, and if so which status does that leave the Biblical God?)
I'd also like to query, was the Biblical God always infinite or were Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit always a part of the Biblical God? Did Jesus Christ or the triune ever have a starting point?
Hey LDU, I'm about to be traveling soon and won't be able to reply much for several days... but in the meantime...
1. There was no starting point for God. No starting point for the Father, Son, or Spirit. That's what the Bible teaches.
2. Jesus' 'limitedness' (for lack of a better word) was self imposed. The Bible basically says that he 'set aside' his "omni" powers while he was on the earth. At any point he could take them up again. But he didn't in order to do what the Father asked of him and in order that he might be a perfect High Priest to reconcile us with the Father. (this is described in detail in the NT book of Hebrews).
One of the problems with your thinking on this is the word "infinite"... God is not infinite "everything". Infinite is not a good word to use I think. It needs to describe certain things God is infinite in.
Anyway, all the best for the next few days. Did you guess my cartoon - bible trivia challenge?
Cheers again for your reply.
In regards to your first point - that is what leaves me a bit confused. Because if the Old Testament doesn't make clear the status of the Triune God, then I was of the opinion that the "beginning" of the Triune God would be accompanied with the New Testament - thus having a beginning.
In your opinion, why would you suggest that the Triune God isn't elaborated in the Old Testament? Do you think that Biblical/Hebrew Prophets worshipped the Triune God as modern day Christianity understands Him? Is there any indication in the OT that suggests previous Prophets worshipped God, knowing that he was triune? And if so, was this communicated to their audiences?
As to your second point - this brings the discussion back to God's infinity. From a Muslim perspective we believe in God being infinite in the sense that God is Omnipotent - a divine being who isn't limited in the manner we are. I'm sure many Christians would agree to the Biblical God being so too.
When you mention that Jesus 'limited' (for a lack of a better word) himself - that opens a whole heap of other issues including - if Jesus was part of a triune biblical God - did he limit himself with the consent of the other two Gods in the triune God formula?
And if, as the Bible communicates (according to your explanation), that he could take on those powers at any time, then that again questions the nature of the Biblical God? How does an all powerful, all seeing, all hearing, Biblical triune God limit themselves? Or, to be precise, one third of themselves? If that one third of God is limited, how is that one third still God? Is there any explanation for this in the Christian (and even Hebrew) scriptures?
As to your third point - I wasn't suggesting that God is "everything" - Omnipotentism doesn't suggest that. But if, as you provide, the Biblical God isn't infinite - then how is He distinguished?
I haven't figured out the trivia yet - i'm not too familiar with the OT's discourse on Moses - but as a wild guess: the pharoahs acceptance of the commandments?
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